OEM / Custom Cut-Out Denim Midi Dress Manufacturer with Private Label Support

Product & Business Information

Product Overview

The Challenge: Developing a Cut-Out Denim Midi Dress with Slit and Front Construction Control

This cut-out sleeveless button-front denim midi dress is designed for fashion brands that need a trend-led denim-look midi dress with clean front styling, controlled cut-out placement, functional buttons, practical front pockets, high-thigh slits, and private label bulk production support.

For many buyers, the challenge is not only making one sample look strong in product photos. The real challenge is keeping the collared neckline, sleeveless armhole, cut-out shape, button-front alignment, front pocket placement, slit height, and midi length consistent across bulk sizes.

One of our clients, a European online fashion brand, came to us with a sleeveless denim midi dress concept. They wanted a collared midi dress with a cut-out detail, functional buttons down the front, two front pockets, and dual high-thigh slits.

However, their previous supplier struggled with proportion and balance. Some samples had uneven slit height, while others showed button placket twisting after finishing. In addition, the cut-out position needed careful control because small placement changes affected both fit and retail presentation.

In practice, cut-out denim midi dresses require more pattern control than basic sleeveless dresses. The longer body makes placket alignment, pocket placement, slit finishing, and hem balance more visible. Therefore, cut-out placement, button spacing, pocket position, slit height, and PP Sample approval must work together from the first development stage.

The Solution: From Sample Review to Approved PP Sample

We approached the project as a complete denim midi dress development program. First, our pattern team reviewed the collar shape, armhole depth, bust measurement, waist balance, hip movement, cut-out placement, button spacing, front pocket size, slit height, and finished midi length.

Then we adjusted the base block to keep the dress structured while supporting movement. For example, we checked neckline balance, armhole coverage, front placket stability, pocket placement, slit opening, hem balance, and finished length before moving to the next sample stage.

During sampling, we also reviewed how the 90% polyester and 10% cotton denim-look fabric behaved during sewing and finishing. This step mattered because fabric stability can affect cut-out edges, button-front alignment, pocket shape, slit finishing, and final garment drape.

After each sample round, the buyer gave comments on cut-out position, collar balance, armhole shape, pocket placement, button-front alignment, slit height, and finished midi length. Therefore, our team refined the measurements, construction details, slit standard, and front layout before PP Sample approval.

Before bulk cutting, we used the Approved PP Sample as the production standard. This helped the buyer reduce uncertainty around size grading, cut-out consistency, placket alignment, pocket placement, slit height, midi length, and final retail presentation.

The Result: A More Reliable Base for Cut-Out Denim Midi Dress Programs

After PP Sample approval, the buyer used the confirmed midi dress block as a base for follow-up cut-out denim dress development. This reduced repeated fitting discussions in later sampling rounds and gave the buyer a clearer production standard for bulk orders.

The final dress offered a strong fashion denim identity. The collared neck and functional button-front closure gave the style a structured utility look, while the sleeveless body and cut-out design added a more trend-led profile.

In addition, the two front pockets improved visual function, and the dual high-thigh slits gave the midi length more movement. For buyers, these details made the style more developed than a basic denim midi dress while still supporting scalable production.

The most important result was not simply one approved sample. The buyer gained a repeatable development base for cut-out sleeveless denim midi dress programs, with clearer standards for cut-out placement, button alignment, pocket position, slit height, length control, and bulk QC.

Built for Denim Dress Bulk Production

New Asia Garment has built long-term OEM/ODM partnerships with over 20 international fashion brands including Levi’s, H&M, ZARA, UNIQLO, Diesel and Walmart, totaling 50+ global partners across the supply chain.

With monthly production capacity of millions of denim pieces and mature capabilities in heavy stone wash, laser engraving, and vintage finishing, we can support sample development and large-scale denim dress production.

Founded in 1986 and headquartered in China, New Asia Garment brings 39 years of professional experience to every project. Our 6 professional factories, 12,000 employees, and annual production capacity of 30 million+ pieces help buyers plan bulk orders, repeat orders, and multi-style denim programs with more confidence.

For cut-out denim midi dress buyers, this scale helps reduce the risk of delayed repeat orders, unstable finish execution, inconsistent grading, uneven cut-out placement, button-front misalignment, unstable pocket placement, and inconsistent slit finishing across bulk production.

OEM / ODM Development Support

We support OEM, ODM, and private label development for denim dresses, denim-look dresses, sleeveless denim dresses, and cut-out midi dress programs. Buyers can send a tech pack, reference sample, product photo, design sketch, or target fit description.

For this style, buyers can customize the fabric composition, fabric weight, color, denim-look finish, collar shape, armhole coverage, cut-out placement, button style, front pocket size, slit height, midi length, labels, and packaging.

For brands building a collection, this style can work as a development base. For instance, buyers can adjust the cut-out shape, pocket design, button finish, slit placement, fabric hand feel, wash color, finished length, or branding details to create a full private label cut-out denim midi dress program.

Key Product Features

• Cut-out sleeveless denim midi dress silhouette
  The sleeveless midi silhouette gives the dress a clean fashion profile, while the cut-out design adds trend value. For buyers, this style requires accurate placement control before bulk production.
• Collared neck construction
  The collared neckline gives the dress a structured denim-inspired look. Moreover, collar width, collar stand, and neckline opening can be adjusted during sample development.
• Cut-out design
  The cut-out detail creates a stronger visual identity than a basic midi dress. In practice, cut-out shape, placement, edge finishing, and coverage should match the Approved PP Sample.
• Functional buttons down front
  The functional button-front closure adds classic denim styling and practical wearing function. During production, button spacing, buttonhole quality, and placket alignment become important QC points.
• Two front pockets
  The front pockets add utility-inspired styling and retail value. For buyers, pocket size, placement, opening shape, and symmetry should be confirmed during sample review.
• Dual high-thigh slits
  The dual high-thigh slits add movement to the midi length and create a stronger fashion look. Therefore, slit height, slit opening, and edge finishing must stay consistent in bulk production.
• Midi length
  The midi length gives the dress more coverage and styling flexibility than a mini dress. For brands, finished length and grading direction should be confirmed before bulk cutting.
• 90% polyester, 10% cotton denim-look fabric
  The polyester-cotton composition supports a denim-inspired appearance with practical stability. As a result, buyers can develop a structured midi dress with better control over shape and bulk consistency.
• Custom wash and surface finish support
  Buyers can discuss denim-look finish, rinse effect, soft wash, vintage wash, faded effect, or buyer-specific finish reference. Approved finish standards help keep bulk garments more consistent.
• Private label production support
  Brand labels, care labels, hangtags, barcode stickers, packaging, and carton marks can be prepared based on buyer artwork. This helps buyers move from sample approval to retail-ready delivery.

OEM / ODM Customization Options

Get a Quote

Size Chart

Denim Dresses

Detailed size specifications can be provided upon request or based on your tech pack.

Note: Use this size chart as a reference only. U.S. and European size grading can be discussed based on buyer requirements.

Production Process

1. Buyer sends tech pack, reference sample, product photo, or design sketch.
2. Our team confirms fabric, color, wash or finish, fit, length, cut-out placement, pocket design, slit height, closure, trims, labels, and packaging.
3. The sample team develops the sample based on confirmed requirements.
4. Buyer reviews the sample and provides revision comments.
5. Buyer confirms the pre-production sample before bulk fabric cutting.
6. The production team starts bulk production after approval.
7. QC staff conduct in-line, measurement, wash/color, fit, closure, cut-out, pocket, slit, trims, packaging, and final quality inspection.
8. The packing team ships goods according to buyer requirements.

Quality Control

Our QC team checks every bulk order against the Approved PP Sample before and during production.

Because dresses are single-garment items, fit accuracy is even more critical than with separates. Our QC team pays special attention to bust, waist, hip, and total length measurements against the Approved PP Sample.

For this cut-out sleeveless button-front denim midi dress, we also check collar balance, armhole coverage, cut-out placement, button-front alignment, front pocket position, dual high-thigh slit height, hem balance, and midi length consistency across all sizes.

Fabric Inspection before Cutting

Our team checks fabric before cutting to review surface quality, shade, defects, hand feel, fabric width, and structural stability. In addition, we confirm whether the fabric matches the approved sample or buyer reference before production starts.

Pattern & Size Checking before Bulk Cutting

The pattern team checks the approved pattern, size chart, grade rules, and key measurement points before bulk cutting. For this dress, we pay close attention to bust, waist, hip, armhole depth, cut-out position, pocket placement, button spacing, slit height, and total length.

Cutting Control during Cutting

During cutting, our team controls fabric lay, marker placement, panel direction, and size separation. Therefore, the production team can reduce measurement deviation and maintain better garment consistency.

Stitching & Seam Inspection during Sewing

QC staff check seam strength, stitch density, collar attachment, armhole finishing, cut-out edge finishing, pocket sewing, button placket construction, slit finishing, side seam workmanship, and hem sewing during production.

Moreover, we review visible areas carefully because sleeveless denim midi dresses show collar shape, front placket alignment, pocket balance, and slit finishing clearly.

Wash / Finish Consistency Checking during Finishing

If the buyer requests a wash or denim-look surface effect, we check shade consistency, hand feel, shrinkage behavior, surface finish, pocket appearance, slit appearance, and overall garment presentation after finishing.

Color difference control can be managed within Grade 4–5 gray scale range, subject to buyer requirements and final confirmation.

Fit & Measurement Inspection during Production

Our QC team measures garments during production and compares them with the Approved PP Sample. In practice, this helps control midi dress fit before final packing, especially around the bust, waist, hip, armhole, cut-out placement, slit height, hem width, and total length.

Closure Inspection before Packing, where applicable

We check button placement, button strength, buttonhole quality, placket alignment, and front opening function before packing.

As a result, buyers receive garments with more consistent button-front construction and cleaner retail appearance.

Hem & Sleeve Inspection during Finishing

QC staff check sleeveless armhole edge quality, armhole symmetry, slit height, slit edge finishing, hem line, hem balance, and finished midi length. For cut-out midi dresses, this step helps keep final proportion consistent across sizes.

Lining Inspection, where applicable

If buyers request lining, our team checks lining fabric, attachment, seam quality, length, comfort, and inside appearance. However, if the dress remains unlined, we confirm inside seam finishing based on buyer requirements.

Trims & Accessories Inspection before Packing

We check buttons, pocket details, labels, hangtags, care labels, size labels, barcode stickers, and packaging accessories before packing. In addition, we confirm that branding materials match approved artwork and order instructions.

Packaging Inspection during Packing

Our packing team checks folding method, button protection, slit protection, poly bag size, barcode placement, size ratio, carton marks, and packing quantity. This helps buyers prepare for warehouse receiving, retail allocation, and online fulfillment.

Final Inspection Before Shipment

Before shipment, QC staff review final packed goods against the approved order requirements. Buyers can also request in-line inspection, final inspection, or third-party inspection support upon request.

Third-Party Inspection Support upon Request

Third-party inspection can be arranged upon request based on buyer requirements. In addition, inspection standards, AQL level, measurement tolerance, and reporting format can be discussed before production.

Compliance, Certifications & Documentation Support

We can review compliance and documentation requirements based on the buyer’s destination market, product type, selected materials, trims, and order requirements.

Available company, factory, or management-system documents may include:

• GB/T 19001 / ISO 9001 — Quality Management System
• GB/T 24001 / ISO 14001 — Environmental Management System
• GB/T 45001 / ISO 45001 — Occupational Health and Safety Management System
• BSCI-related audit information — available for review upon request
• KCB-TE-OCS — OCS-related transaction certificate available for review upon request
• SC-KCB-TE — OCS-related transaction certificate available for review upon request

For label and order preparation, we can support fiber composition label preparation, care label preparation, country of origin label preparation, size label preparation, brand label preparation, packaging label preparation, and barcode sticker preparation.

For testing-related needs, buyers can discuss fabric test support, color fastness testing support, shrinkage testing support, flammability testing support, button attachment review, and third-party inspection support upon request.

In addition, REACH discussion is available for EU orders, and Prop 65 review discussion is available for California market orders.

Buyers should confirm certificate validity, factory scope, product scope, and applicable order conditions before production. BSCI audit reports and OCS-related documents, including KCB-TE-OCS and SC-KCB-TE, can be shared with qualified buyers under appropriate disclosure terms.

Any organic-content claim should be supported by buyer-approved documentation before retail use.

U.S. Market Considerations

For U.S. buyers, we can adjust this style for retail sizing, private label presentation, and documentation needs. Moreover, buyers can discuss care label wording, barcode stickers, carton marks, and inspection requirements before production.

U.S. dress sizing tends to differ from European sizing. Therefore, we recommend confirming the target size chart, grade rules, and key fit measurements during sampling.

For this style, buyers should also confirm armhole coverage, cut-out placement, button-front alignment, front pocket position, dual high-thigh slit height, hip movement, and finished midi length before bulk approval.

If the product is intended for the California market, Prop 65-related requirements can be reviewed before production.

European Market Considerations

For European buyers, we can support labeling language, fiber composition, documentation, and traceability preparation before production. In addition, buyers can discuss REACH testing, packaging information, and destination-specific label language before bulk production.

European dress sizing and fit preferences may differ from U.S. markets. Therefore, we recommend confirming the target body profile, sample size, grade direction, bust measurement, hip movement, cut-out coverage, slit placement, and product-specific fit requirements during the development stage.

Sustainability & Material Options

We can discuss sustainability-related requests based on verified material availability and buyer documentation needs.

Available discussion points may include custom fabric sourcing, fiber documentation review, material-origin document discussion when verifiable documents are available, and OCS-related document review when applicable.

In addition, buyers can discuss low-impact dyeing or finishing process options based on design requirements. Recyclable packaging options and ISO 14001-related environmental management information are also available for buyer review when applicable.

Technical File & Development Support

If you already have a tech pack, our team can review the specifications before sampling. However, if you do not have a complete tech pack, you can send a reference sample, product photo, design sketch, or target fit description.

We can support tech pack review, size specification discussion, fabric and color reference confirmation, wash reference discussion, trim and label discussion, PP sample comments, approved sample reference, care label artwork, packaging instruction, bulk inspection checklist, and shipping mark preparation.

For this cut-out sleeveless button-front denim midi dress, buyers can also provide collar width, armhole depth, bust measurement, waist measurement, hip measurement, cut-out shape, cut-out placement, button spacing, pocket size, pocket placement, slit height, hem width, and finished midi length.

Trade Terms & Order Discussion

Why Choose Us

39 Years of Garment Manufacturing Experience

Founded in 1986 and headquartered in China, Henan Newasia Garment Co., Ltd. is an industry-leading OEM/ODM garment solutions supplier with 39 years of professional experience.

For buyers, this means they can discuss production control, fit management, fabric selection, trim application, labeling, packaging, and delivery planning with an experienced garment supplier.

For cut-out sleeveless denim midi dress projects, experience matters because cut-out placement, button-front alignment, pocket position, slit height, fit, finish, and finished length all need careful coordination before bulk production.

Trusted by Global Fashion Leaders

New Asia Garment has built long-term OEM/ODM partnerships with over 20 international fashion brands including Levi’s, H&M, ZARA, UNIQLO, Diesel and Walmart, totaling 50+ global partners across the supply chain.

With monthly production capacity of millions of denim pieces and mature craftsmanship and technologies, including heavy stone wash, laser engraving, and vintage finishing, we provide end-to-end customization solutions for bulk denim production orders.

For buyers, our production workflows and quality systems have been tested through long-term global fashion cooperation. Moreover, our team understands international retail requirements, including the higher fit, trim, button, and slit-control standards that cut-out denim midi dresses demand.

ISO 9001, ISO 14001, and ISO 45001 Manufacturing Management Systems

Newasia Garment maintains ISO 9001 quality management, ISO 14001 environmental management, and ISO 45001 occupational health and safety management systems.

In addition, BSCI-related audit information and OCS-related transaction certificates, including KCB-TE-OCS and SC-KCB-TE, are available for review upon request.

These systems help buyers review documentation, production control, and management processes before cooperation. Buyers should verify certificate validity, factory scope, product scope, and applicable order conditions before production.

Bulk Production Capacity

Newasia Garment operates 6 professional factories with 12,000 employees and an annual production capacity of 30 million+ pieces.

As a result, we can support volume orders, repeat orders, multi-style denim dress programs, seasonal launches, and approved-sample-to-bulk production planning.

For denim midi dress buyers, capacity planning helps reduce delivery pressure when the program includes multiple colors, finish versions, size ranges, and repeated replenishment orders.

Quality Control Based on Approved Samples

Our QC team checks bulk production against the Approved PP Sample.

For this style, the inspection focus includes collar balance, armhole coverage, cut-out placement, button-front alignment, front pocket position, dual high-thigh slit height, hem balance, and midi length control.

Client Success Stories

European Fashion Brand — Cut-Out Denim Midi Dress Development
A European online fashion brand approached us with a design for a sleeveless denim midi dress with a collared neck, cut-out detail, front pockets, button-front closure, and dual high-thigh slits. Their previous supplier could make basic denim dresses, but they struggled to control cut-out placement, slit height, and button-front alignment after finishing.

Our pattern team reviewed the target body profile, adjusted the midi dress block, and refined the collar shape, armhole depth, cut-out placement, button spacing, pocket position, slit height, hip movement, hem balance, and finished length through sample comments.

After PP Sample approval, the buyer used the confirmed block as a base for follow-up cut-out denim dress development.

UK Online Retailer — Private Label Cut-Out Denim Dress Program
A UK-based online retailer needed a reliable partner for an expanding cut-out denim dress program. They required consistent sizing, repeatable slit finishing, stable front pocket placement, clean button-front construction, and clearer control over delivery planning.

We adjusted the grade rules to match their customer fit profile and supported bulk production after sample approval. As a result, the buyer gained a more repeatable development process for future cut-out denim midi dress styles.

We can share more details upon request.

Ideal For

• Denim brands
• Fashion brands
• Dress brands
• Women’s apparel brands
• Summer collection buyers
• Partywear capsule buyers
• Resort wear brands
• Boutique brands
• Private label fashion brands
• Online fashion retailers
• Lifestyle apparel brands
• Wholesalers
• U.S. buyers
• European buyers
• DTC fashion startups
• Retailers building denim dress programs
• Retailers building cut-out denim midi dress programs
• Retailers building sleeveless denim dress capsules

Care Instructions

Wash once separately in cold water before wearing. Machine wash cold inside out with like colors. Do not bleach. Tumble dry low. Cool iron if needed.

Because this style includes a cut-out design, functional button-front closure, front pockets, and dual high-thigh slits, care label wording should be confirmed carefully during sample approval. Buyers can also discuss button protection and packing method before bulk production.

What to Send for a Fast Quote

To make the quotation process easier, buyers do not need to prepare a full technical file at the first step. Basic product information is enough for an initial discussion.

Please send:

• Product name or SKU
• Order quantity
• Destination country
• Target size range
• Fabric, color, or finish reference
• Fit preference
• Midi length requirement
• Collar or neckline requirement
• Sleeveless armhole requirement
• Cut-out placement requirement
• Functional button-front closure requirement
• Front pocket requirement
• Dual high-thigh slit height or placement requirement
• Logo, label, or packaging requirements, if any
• Tech pack, product photo, design sketch, or reference sample, if available

Helpful but not required: target price range, testing or documentation requirements, target delivery time, and preferred shipping terms.

FAQ

Can you control the cut-out placement in bulk?

Yes. We check cut-out shape, placement, edge finishing, coverage, and body balance against the Approved PP Sample. For cut-out denim midi dresses, this detail strongly affects both fit and product photography.

Can the dual high-thigh slit height be customized?

Yes. Buyers can customize slit height, slit placement, opening shape, and edge finishing. We recommend confirming slit height during sample approval because it affects both movement and wearability.

Can you control the button-front alignment?

Yes. We check button spacing, buttonhole quality, placket alignment, and front opening function against the Approved PP Sample. For button-front denim midi dresses, placket alignment is a key retail appearance point.

Can the two front pockets be customized?

Yes. Buyers can customize pocket size, pocket shape, pocket placement, opening direction, and stitch details. Final pocket placement should be confirmed through sample review before bulk production.

Can the finished midi length be controlled across sizes?

Yes. We check total garment length against the Approved PP Sample during production. For midi dresses, buyers can confirm target length, grading direction, and measurement tolerance during sampling.

Can the armhole coverage be adjusted?

Yes. Buyers can customize armhole depth, shoulder coverage, armhole finishing, and neckline balance based on target market requirements. Final coverage should be confirmed through sample approval.

Can you customize the fabric, color, or finish?

Yes. Buyers can discuss fabric composition, fabric weight, color, wash effect, and surface finish based on their target design. Final feasibility depends on fabric availability, trim selection, and sample confirmation.

What is the MOQ?

Flexible MOQ Solutions: • In-stock styles: No MOQ • Existing styles with customization: From 50 pcs • Custom T-shirts, Hoodies & Sweatpants: From 100 pcs/color • Garment-dyed products: From 150 pcs/color • Denim & Other Fashion Garments: From 300 pcs/style

This style belongs to Denim & Other Fashion Garments. The applicable MOQ starts from 300 pcs/style.

Can you develop this dress based on my reference photo?

Yes. You can send a reference photo, design sketch, tech pack, physical sample, or target fit description. Our team can review the design and discuss fabric, fit, collar, cut-out, buttons, pockets, slits, wash or finish, labels, and packaging before sampling.

How do you control fit across bust, waist, and hip?

Our pattern team reviews the buyer’s target measurements, fit comments, and grading direction before sample development. During production, our QC team checks bust, waist, hip, total length, armhole depth, cut-out placement, slit height, and hem width against the Approved PP Sample.

Can I customize this for my own brand?

Yes. We support OEM, ODM, and private label development for this style. Buyers can customize fabric, fit, wash or finish, length, collar, armhole, cut-out, buttons, pockets, slits, trims, labels, packaging, and size grading.

Can fabric, color, wash, or fit be changed?

Yes. Fabric composition, fabric weight, color, denim-look finish, fit, length, closure, pockets, slit construction, and trims can be adjusted based on buyer requirements. However, final feasibility depends on fabric availability, finish complexity, trims readiness, and sample confirmation.

Do you support private label production?

Yes. We can support private label trims, brand labels, care labels, size labels, hangtags, barcode stickers, packaging, and carton marks.

Can you adjust size for U.S. or European market?

Yes. We can adjust size grading for U.S., European, Asian, or buyer-specific markets. In practice, buyers can provide target measurements, fit comments, or reference samples before sample development.

Can you prepare labels and packaging for my brand?

Yes. We can prepare brand labels, care labels, size labels, fiber composition labels, origin labels, hangtags, barcode stickers, poly bags, and carton marks based on buyer artwork and market requirements.

Can testing or inspection be arranged if required?

Yes. Fabric testing, color fastness testing, shrinkage testing, button attachment review, flammability testing, and third-party inspection can be discussed or arranged upon request.

Can this style be used as a base for my collection?

Yes. Buyers can use this style as a development base for cut-out denim dress collections, sleeveless midi dress capsules, boutique programs, or private label fashion lines. In addition, fabric, fit, finish, slit placement, length, branding, and packaging can be adjusted.

What information should I send to get a quote?

Please send SKU, order quantity, destination country, target size range, fabric requirement, color or finish reference, fit preference, cut-out reference, slit requirement, branding requirement, label requirement, packaging requirement, and target delivery time. If available, tech packs or reference samples can improve quotation accuracy.

How do you ensure bulk quality matches the sample?

Our QC team checks bulk production against the Approved PP Sample. During production, we inspect fabric, cutting, sewing, measurements, cut-out placement, pocket placement, button-front alignment, slit finishing, fit, labels, packaging, and final packed goods.

For this style, we pay special attention to cut-out placement, button-front alignment, pocket position, slit height, and finished length because these details strongly affect retail quality.

What happens if there is a color difference?

Color difference control can be managed within Grade 4–5 gray scale range, subject to buyer requirements and final confirmation. Therefore, buyers should confirm lab dips or approved PP samples before bulk production.

Can you adjust the schedule if I need to expedite?

Schedule adjustment can be discussed based on fabric availability, finish complexity, trims readiness, sample approval timing, order quantity, and factory production capacity.

What are the payment terms?

Payment terms can be discussed based on order type, order value, buyer requirements, and production arrangement. Final terms require confirmation before production.

What certificates does New Asia Garment hold?

We maintain ISO 9001 quality management, ISO 14001 environmental management, and ISO 45001 occupational health and safety management systems. In addition, BSCI-related audit information and OCS-related transaction certificates, including KCB-TE-OCS and SC-KCB-TE, are available for review upon request.

Buyers should confirm certificate validity, factory scope, product scope, and applicable order conditions before production.

Send Us Your Custom Denim Dress Requirements

If you are reviewing this style for your cut-out denim dress collection, you can send us your order quantity, destination country, size range, color or finish reference, and slit height requirements. A tech pack, product photo, design sketch, or reference sample also helps, but you do not need it for the first discussion.